Episode 5

Cia: Welcome to Employee Activation, the HR podcast that takes you into the minds of some of the world's brightest workforce strategists to find out how they make both their employees, and their organisations thrive. I'm Cia Kouparitsas, and today we're going to be talking about building workforce capability. But rather than focusing on hiring strategy, we're looking inwards to find out how you can build a ‘promote from within’ culture and grow the skills of the people you already have in your workforce to enable them to develop their careers alongside your business.

The nature of the modern workplace means the skills and organisation needs are constantly changing. Every five years, in fact, according to IBM, it's no longer feasible to go to market every time you need new skills. Plus, it probably means you're under utilising the people you have, which are both your single greatest expense and most valuable asset.

So as a business, how do you motivate people to upskill and develop in the direction you need? And as an individual, how do you upskill yourself and take charge of your career?

Delving into this topic with me today is Tara Karver, a US based HR leader and executive coach who has led some teams at truly iconic businesses, Comcast, Hershey Company, Procter & Gamble, and is now the HR lead for workforce skills at Pearson, one of the largest education companies in the world, and also one of our close partners here at WithYouWithMe.

Tara, welcome to the show.

Tara: Thank you so much for having me. It's so great to see you.

Cia: So good to see you too, Tara. Now before we get stuck into this professional development conversation, I'm really eager for you to share a little bit about your career, because it has been a spectacular one, and I would love to hear the story of how you have developed to land where you are today.

Tara: I like to think it's all the hard work that I put in. But it is a lot of, you know, the people that I've met along the way and people taking a chance on me. So I started my career with Procter & Gamble because somebody took a chance on me to, you know, kind of bring me in.

I started as a co-op, then went in as a full-time employee. And I'm so grateful for that person who took a chance on me because I learned so much from Procter & Gamble. So Procter & Gamble is one of the companies that, you know, that one of the CEOs would say, you can take all of my brands, all of my money, but leave my people and we'll rebuild the company.

And it was just such a heavy promote from within organisation. And what that gave me was this opportunity to feel like it was, you know, it was in everyone's best interest for me to grow and develop. I knew my manager was going to be more successful if I was successful. And, you know, you want to show up for each other.

So really, it was a great experience of I knew I was going to be able to get a lot of growth and development within this one organisation because they were so big and so broad, and they had a big focus on experiences to build skills. And I think that started this journey that I've been on, of helping people think about what are the skills and then what are the, you know, getting the right experiences to continue to build those skills.

So I was at Procter & Gamble. I moved into the Hershey Company with a similar career background, a really strong COE population to build the talent there at Hershey.

And then at Comcast, one of my favourite roles was going into talent management where I really looked across the enterprise. And how do we do this more broadly across the organisation.

And now recently, I landed at Pearson, which, it's the same idea of, you know, how do we continue to build people, our people. We're the largest learning company in the world. How do we make sure that we're continuing to grow and develop our people, to be able to care for our customers and consumers?

Cia: That's so great Tara. What an adventure you've been on. And I love that common thread throughout that it's always been about the people and investing within, because I think that's at the heart of why so many people join the HR sector, and it's just wonderful to see that there's so many brands that are leading by example and living and breathing that truth, which is wonderful.

I know the organisations you've worked for have spanned lots of different industries, consumer goods, cable TV, confectionery. I imagine that while they all have the same intent to promote and upskill from within, they probably have different approaches to upskilling their talent and probably a broad range of career paths on offer for their people. So what are some of the top programs over your career that you've either led or been part of that have been successful in helping employees to grow and develop?

Tara: So again, going back to this idea of experiences. I think a lot of times when you're talking to a manager, they'll be like, well, what training can I put somebody through? And that's great. I’m a huge fan of training, but training isn't going to be enough. You really need to give them opportunities to show what they learned within the training, and grow in that way. Which is, again, why I love what you are doing with WithYouWithMe, because giving people the experience to grow is going to be key.

So one of my favourite opportunities that I worked on at Comcast and it took many years, but really getting the company to think about short term projects in a way that we use them to develop people.

So instead of just kind of calling the person that, you know, can go and do the project, let's be more transparent about it. Let's, you know, make sure the organisation is transparent with their people about the projects that we have across the organisation. And let's let our people be more transparent about what they're interested in. So I think just opening up and kind of getting out of the way and being really transparent about these are the skills, this is the work, these are the tasks that we need to get done. And then letting the employee say, hey, you know, let me give that a try. I want to learn more. Will you take a chance on me?

So really starting to make those connections more organically, leveraging different technology. So I think that program was really important to driving that idea of experiences and creating those experiences.

Another one that always comes to mind that I was part of, is creating a cohort across the enterprise. So a lot of times when you're in these big enterprises, the business units run pretty siloed. But we know there's hidden talent within those business units that could do more across the enterprise, but we just don't know who they are.

So what we did was we did an effort to kind of bring the hidden talent up, get them sponsors at the most senior level, and then use them, like create a talent council, and look at those individuals based off of where they are, what their interests are and what the company needs. What is the specific development that they need? What are the specific experiences that they need, the specific trainings, and help them navigate the organisation. What we found was we did open up some of the doors that were usually closed to move talent more freely across the organisation.

Cia: Love that. A talent council is such a fantastic idea in a really practical way. I think people can start to implement that kind of shift within their organisation.

Tara: Absolutely.

Cia: Now, something I'm curious on are the metrics that you look at when you're implementing these kinds of programs, because I think demonstrating ROI to an organisation is really important in terms of lifting that veil of mystery as to why we're doing this and why it's important to double down. Are there any specific examples that you can share of the kind of metrics, or some of the successes that you've seen from these programs that help you build that ongoing advocacy?

Tara: This is a great question. You need your workforce to be engaged. So obviously the engagement surveys, when people feel like they have opportunities to grow, they're going to be more engaged. Therefore, your business is going to be stronger. So you have engagement. You also have some hard numbers around hiring, the cost to hire, how long it takes people to get up to speed in their new role.

If you have somebody that understands your culture, how to navigate your organisation, and you can just get them up to speed on a skill or task that you need to have delivered, you're going to save so much money in just those hiring costs and getting people up to speed. And again, you're going to have people just more committed to the organisation.

The other thing we looked at a lot was movement. So we knew as we looked at our top leaders within the organisation that the ones who had done different assignments, who had tried different things, maybe they failed, but they'd moved in their career and tried some different things. We found that they were the stronger leaders within the organisation.

They had the higher engagement scores. You know, their business was stronger. So we started to look at movement as a way to develop people. So how do we get people kind of, you know, instead of, I know how to do my job. I know my manager. Just leave me here, to let's try something different, and give you a different perspective.

And by the way, you can give that business a different perspective because you're coming from a different background. So I think that's another metric that we would look at.

Cia: It's fantastic.

Now as we are always looking at the workforce through this lens of the future of work now, where roles and skills are changing all the time. How do you make sure that people's development and their development plans actually align with the direction the organisation is heading?

Because I think you sort of touched on it before that, you know, sometimes people just default to putting people into training and rolling and training and not always have that, required or intended outcome. So how do you make sure that the development is actually aligned for the organisation?

Tara: This is such a tough one. And I would say, you know, I think we've been on this within HR and within businesses of this talk of like skills. And, you know, we've got 50,000 skills or 100,000 skills, how many thousands of skills and it gets really complicated. It gets really complicated for the individual. It's like what skill do I focus on?

It gets complicated for the organisation to be able to track those skills. So what I found in my experience, one is within Pearson, we have a technology they can start to tell you, okay, so based off of AI, based off of how the world is changing and based off of the roles that you have today, these are some of the tasks that you're going to be able to outsource.

These are some of the tasks that you're going to need to really hone in on. And I find that really helpful because, you know, back before I knew about this technology and, you know, in my talent management days, I would ask my most brilliant leaders, what are the skills that we need to be developing for? And I would get nothing because it's very complicated and hard to think through.

And who knows, you know, so I think leveraging tools like that and AI to help us predict what are the skills we need to focus on, I think that's going to be huge. Now, you mentioned IBM in your intro. IBM does a really cool thing. They have a whole team focus on skills and the skills they're going to focus on within the organisation.

So they have like a Chief Skills Officer to make sure that they're really laser focused on, okay, these are the skills that we need to be developing. And I think it's, you know, identifying what skills are most important to the organisation. Then also how these skills need to be getting done in the organisation. So you could be, you know, the most skilled person, but if no one wants to work with you, then you're not really that good to me.

So it's like, how do we operate? What's our operating model? What are our operating values? How do we get things done here? So understanding that, understanding the skills that you need and then continuing to be open to feedback because you're never going to master, you always need to be learning. That's one reason why I love, one of the many reasons why I love Pearson.

It's a learning company, and I think the more you practice learning agility, the more you're going to be able to do within your organisation and for yourself.

Cia: Yeah, and that's a really great segue onto kind of giving advice for some organisations, because I think, while you're very fortunate that you're in an organisation like Pearson that is very education focused, and I've seen it firsthand, it's an extraordinary organisation.

There will be others out there who maybe aren't seeing their people with that same drive for continuous learning or push to grow their skills. And do you have any practical tips for ways that, leaders in these organisations could build that learning culture within their teams?

Tara: I keep going back to, if you can't do anything else and you don't want to get in the whole, like, what are the skills of the future and all of that, part of me gets angry that, you know, we haven't we haven't cracked this yet.

But I think focusing on the manager, if you can get your managers to be able to have coaching conversations with their employees to talk about, okay, what's going on in your world, what's your life about, what are your goals and hopes and dreams and what does that mean from a work perspective? What's the type of work that you like get lost in, and you look up and like an hour passed by and you realise it.

So really start to build managers that come from a coaching and a caring perspective. I think that's going to be one of the biggest skills that we can all focus on. And no one's going to say no. Manager development doesn't matter. I think everyone knows it matters.

But I think the more we can focus on the people that are that are leading others, it's such an important job. And, you know, many of those managers that took chances on me, you know, you've got to pay that forward and take chances on other people. But you also have to be able to hear them, what's important to them, where they want to grow and develop. And how you can support that or how that can tie to what the company needs them to be delivering.

That's where I always think that no matter the organisation you're in, you can always focus on helping our managers just be better people leaders.

Cia: It's such an important point. And it's interesting because that's some of the work we've been discussing with Faethm recently, which is the product you mentioned before from Pearson that does the future of work and the AI impact on the workforce prediction.

And I know many of the conversations we've had with customers in the Faethm team have very much been, once you get that powerful view of what your organisation needs to be or to look like or to evolve to in the future, how do you then make that, tangible and practical at a managerial level? So that they feel empowered with the information they need to support that individual?

Because I think so often you might have an organisation thinking of only the big picture, long term stuff, but if it's not translating down to that manager level, who are essentially, you know, the boots on the ground, the people who are taking this workforce strategy and this vision and making sure that it's coming to life through the people.

So I just think that's such a powerful a powerful point. The manager is the heart of everything.

Tara: I completely agree.

Cia: Yeah. What about the individuals? Because obviously employee’s motivation to learn and grow in a company is really important as well. How should employees be thinking about upskilling themselves to get the career they want?

Tara: I tend to go back to a model that was introduced to me, like my first onboarding session at Procter & Gamble. It was my first like big business meeting in the corporate headquarters. And there was a guy that, one of the executives who kicked it off, and I mean, this will show my age, but number one, he said, make sure you're reading the paper every day. So you need to be, you know, you need to understand what's happening within your area, but around the world. So that was one of his key points.

The other thing was this idea of PIE, which is performance is first. So, you know, as you're thinking about your own career, you've got to be performing. If you're not performing and showing people what you can do. It’s, you know, it’s what kind of like what gets you in the door.

But then you also have to think about your image. So how do people think about you when you come around? Are people inspired by you and they get energy from you, or do they like, you know, they need a nap after they have some time with you? So it's like, you know, what is the image that you're bringing? How do people think about you? What's your brand?

And then the final piece is exposure. And I think this is so key. And this is why I love what you're doing for our GED grads going through the apprenticeship program because they're getting exposure to different companies, to different people. And just like I said, like there was nothing special about me or my resume coming out of college, but somebody took a chance on me. And then somebody else took a chance on me, you know? And I kept my performance and my exposure and my networking up. But I just think, you know, you've got to be proactive about what, you know, what are you interested in and who are some of the people that are in that space and get to know them and get to learn from them.

Like one example, I was interested in getting this job that was in Manhattan. I was living in Cincinnati, and the hiring manager was in Cincinnati, but I knew he, like, already had a slate because he had recently had a job opened in his space. So I knew he, like, already had a ton of wonderful people to pick from.

So I was like, well, can I just meet you for coffee before you fly back to New York? And he's like, no, you know, I'm in back-to-back meetings. And actually, I'm headed back to the airport, and I was like, okay, I'll drive you to the airport. So I drove him to the airport, super like put myself on a ledge, but had a great conversation with him, put myself out there and I end up getting the job, so I just I can't stress enough, like the exposure or the talking to people, just sharing what you want to be doing. That tied with, you know, your brand and your performance. I believe you can be unstoppable.

Cia: I love that, and the PIE acronym is a great one because I think it really does have relevance to everyone at all ends of the employment journey. And you mentioned GED, which again, is a Pearson organisation. And it was how we first met, Tara. Just some background for everyone listening at home. Tara and I first met in New York, where we were working together to support the GED learner, to upskill into technology roles, to step into, employment opportunities. And I think you've got many individuals there who are either early career or career transition and looking to enter a new field for the first time.

And that principle of PIE applies there. And I can see it in my own life as well. So I love something catchy that you can kind of hold on to and remember. And I think that's really good.

Tara: Remembered for many years.

Cia: Yes. And I also like the tip of taking someone you know for a drive and using that as an interview. It's unique. That makes you memorable. So good. Yes, I love it.

So moving on to the final question, and it's one that we asked all our guests and I think it's extra relevant to our conversation today. And that is how do you activate your employees to help them develop and align their aspirations with organisational goals?

What's your top tip for people to walk away with?

Tara: So I think what people need to do is they need to look and work. What's important to me, as an individual, what are my values? What's my purpose? What am I here for? And those are big questions, right? But start to explore them for yourself.

What do you want to be known for? What's your legacy? All of that is super important. What's important to you? And then, you know, what does that mean for the company that I'm in? Do our goals and purpose align? Can I see where I need to grow and how I can grow here and how I can contribute to what's important to me, but also what's important to the company.

And then break it down. So, if this is where I want to go, this is what I want to learn. These are the experiences I want to have. What do I need to do in the next 90 days? What do I need to do in the next week? And keep iterating on that and growing on that and keep sharing that with the people that you feel comfortable with.

But I think you've got to start with what's important to you. We only have one life to live, right? And you don't want to be wasting it on things that that don't fulfill you and really managing your energy in the right way. And I think I always go back to your purpose, lining up with the company's purpose and really working on things that that move you in the company forward is always the coaching I go for.

Cia: That's great advice, Tara, and the perfect place, I think, to wrap the conversation. It's come full circle. So thank you so much for your time and your insights. I always love going on the journey of what people have picked up through their career. There's so many diverse, enlightening experiences that I think will really resonate with people.

So thank you for being so open and sharing everything.

Tara: Thank you for the opportunity.

Cia: So any listeners who are wanting to explore more about Tara, or the different ways to develop their employees and help them realise their potential, whether it's understanding the skills they have or need or finding ways to motivate them to pursue careers that will help them and their businesses thrive. Just head to our website withyouwithme.com and find the Employee Activation page.

We’ll also put some information there on all of the wonderful programs that Tara is supporting through the Pearson family as well.

So thank you everyone. We'll see you next time.